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Vision Battery, Nowogen 15 Q: What you don't know about Vision Battery and Nowogen
Jan 24, 2019
Vision Battery, Nowogen 15 Q: What you don't know about Vision Battery and Nowogen
Interview time: January 21
Interviewee: Xiaoli Zhao, Vice President of Investment, Strategic Investment Department, Vision Battery, Xun Ouyang, Chairman of Nowogen
Q1: Please tell us a little about the achievements of the 2018 Vision Battery.
Vice President Xiaoli Zhao: The core breakthrough of Vision Battery in the past year is mainly three aspects.
1. Technology research and development level. With the support of Nowogen and other partners, we have made breakthroughs from 45KW to 60KW and even to the reserve of 120KW engines, especially 45KW has already achieved loading.
2. The two major engine bases - Shanxi and Hubei - achieved the first year of the base's performance breakthrough in 2018, with a revenue of around 90 million yuan and a net profit of more than 20 million.
3. Team building. Because Vision Battery's entire industry positioning is now the engine of the engine industry, the entire team in addition to the original Vision Battery's own reserve team, in 2018 made a very big complement, the entire team reached about 80 people, plus we are The Yangtze River Delta engine team - Zhejiang HydroT, a total of nearly 120 people, the team size has been greatly improved.
4. Engine brand influence. After last year's efforts, the engine market from the OEM to the user to the operating company, the recognition of Vision Battery is very high.
Q2: What achievements did Nowogen achieve in 2018 and what new products were produced?
Chairman of Xun Ouyang: The main achievements of Nowogen in 2018 are as follows:
1. Nowogen completed the re-routing of the stack automation line in the third quarter of 18, which is a milestone. The production line is expected to have an annual production capacity of up to 4,000 sets.
2. Realized the industrialization of the third generation reactor (1.5kW/L power density stack). In addition, the current fourth-generation carbon composite panel reactor has achieved a power density of 2kW/L, and also obtained the test report of China Automotive Technology and Research Center Co., Ltd., achieving a breakthrough in technology. The development of the second-generation metal plate stack mold was completed in 2018, but the product will not be launched until 2019. After the product is introduced, its power density can exceed 4kW/L.
3. In addition to the above products and achievements in the technical field, the commercialization has also achieved certain results. The Wuhan and Datong bases, which are mainly built in the combination of Nowogen and Vision Battery, have become two important demonstration zones for hydrogen energy development in China.
Q3: Why does Vision Battery's construction cooperation in the hydrogen refueling station choose Shanghai Hyfun, and what layout will it have? What are the hydrogen stations currently under construction or already built by Vision Battery?
Deputy General Xiaoli Zhao: The hydrogen refueling station is an indispensable part of the operation of the whole vehicle in the hydrogen fuel industry. For the engine enterprise, it is necessary to land the entire engine industry in the local area, let the whole vehicle operate, and definitely promote hydrogenation. The station is equipped with synchronization, which requires the support of third parties with strong design capabilities and investment operation capabilities.
In the process we have seen many companies, each with its own characteristics and advantages. Shanghai Hyfun, because of the actual project cooperation with us, their team also showed the characteristics of the Nowogen team - openness, groundbreaking means, ability to reduce the risk while ensuring the benefits, and achieve the customer's purpose. Therefore, in the early stage of such a sunrise industry development, a team's groundbreaking flexibility, including professional ability is an important criterion, so it invested in Shanghai Hyfun.
In the future, we may cooperate with Shanghai Hyfun, we will recommend them more and cooperate with them in the matching of hydrogen refueling stations in the industrial base of Vision Battery and the supporting demonstration of the entire city.
In addition, Vision Battery currently has four stations, one in Hannan District of Hubei Province and the other in Datong City, Shanxi Province. The two units have a daily hydrogenation capacity of 1000kg and a reserve capacity of 1000kg. There is also a station in Hubei that has completed the bidding and is doing the planning and design in the early stage. There is also a station in Shanxi that is expected to start construction around March this year.
Q4: What do you think is the biggest problem currently encountered in the hydrogen refueling station?
Vice President Xiaoli Zhao: There are several problems with the biggest problem in the hydrogen refueling station.
The first point is first of all at the policy level, because many local governments are not familiar with the approval, planning, installation, fire protection and environmental protection of hydrogen refueling stations. On the one hand, they need to learn from leading cities, such as Foshan, and on the other hand, they must have full confidence and determination in the industry.
The second point is that the planning layout of the hydrogen refueling station is similar to the planning layout of the petroleum gas station. It is related to the layout planning of the entire city's hydrogen fuel vehicle, including the planning of the urban traffic pattern, and has certain tests for the government's planning capabilities.
The third point is that the overall construction cost of the hydrogen refueling station is relatively high. For example, the entire construction cost of a daily hydrogenation of 500 kg may be between 800 and 10 million, and the 1000 kg may be between 10 and 15 million or even higher. Investors have certain input requirements. For these reasons, the builders involved in the hydrogen refueling station have not yet reached a particularly rich level.
In fact, the most constructive capacity is China's energy investment companies, including SINOPEC, CNPC and some natural gas companies. They have shown great interest, but have not yet become the main force of this team.
However, we expect that in the next 2-3 years, the main components of the construction of hydrogen refueling station investors will be more diversified, especially the participation of state-owned energy investment companies, which will have a particularly big change.
Q5: Do you think that the future development of fuel cell stacks to metal sheets is an inevitable trend?
Chairman of Xun Ouyang: I think it is an inevitable trend. The so-called inevitable trend refers to the value of metal plate reactors that cannot be ignored. However, in the next five years, composite panel reactors have their vitality in many fields.
Nowogen's current carbon composite materials can theoretically achieve a power density of 2.5kW/L. However, some foreign materials companies can achieve 3-4kW/L, and the carbon composite board stack has better. Life expectancy, so carbon composite panels have value.
However, we all know that Toyota, Honda, Hyundai and other passenger cars are all metal plate reactors, so the performance, process and cost of metal plate reactors have been verified in these car companies. Secondly, the mass power density that metal sheet stacks can achieve is difficult to achieve with composite sheet materials.
At present, the power density has only two indicators, one is the volume power density, the other is the mass power density, the metal plates are very thin, generally up to one hundred micrometers, the thinnest is up to 50 micrometers, 75 micrometers, and the composite board ratio It is much lighter and thinner, so in the long run, composite panel reactors are more suitable for long-term applications. For example, in logistics vehicles and heavy trucks, there may be strong vitality in the future, while metal plate reactors are mainly aimed at weight and volume. Sensitive passenger car.
Q6: Is it convenient to disclose the current progress of cooperation between Nowogen and passenger car companies?
Chairman of Xun Ouyang: Currently, Nowogen and two passenger car companies including HaiMa are developing fuel cell passenger car samples together. It is expected that at least two generations of samples will be developed in 2019, and then they will be completed before the mass production of the whole vehicle. A road test of 1 million to 2 million kilometers, so it is expected that real passenger car products should be realized by 2020.
By 2020, we hope to have 50 to 100 fuel cell passenger cars on the road, but before that the tests must be completed. Regarding the matching of this passenger car enterprise, there are currently metal composite electric stacks and metal plate reactors. In the future, mainly metal plate reactors are mainly used.
Q7: What is the impact of Vision Battery's previously issued equity transfer on Nowogen, and what impact does Vision Battery and Nowogen have? What do the two think about this?
Vice President Xiaoli Zhao: This equity transfer is considered to be a very positive transfer. In fact, we wanted to seek the acquisition of Nowogen in the early 2018, but the Nowogen team believes that there is still a lot of room for the industry to develop. I hope to retain space for my own independent capital operations, because the market and policies give a good window.
At that time, Vision Battery held more than 20% of the shares in Nowogen. Then we had deep cooperation in the technical support and orders of the reactor and engine, so we considered the space for the independent capital operation of Nowogen, even we are Taking a half step back in equity and retaining Nowogen's more independent identity will not affect the more cooperation, relevance and independence of our business.
Long Qing Hua Chuang, the equity transferee, has also paid close attention to the investment in the new energy field, and has made long-term attention and research on Nowogen, so we feel that letting them come in will help Nowogen.
Chairman of Xun Ouyang: At the beginning of 2018, Vision Battery and Nowogen and related shareholders have discussed whether the future should be done together? However, the result of the discussion is that it is better to do this together and to force more resources to come in.
So from that perspective, and considering the incentives for the Nowogen team, it was decided to maintain independent development.
In addition, in order to achieve deeper cooperation, it is necessary to loosen the bond on the equity of both parties. In fact, this will enable the two parties to cooperate more at the strategic and market level. Therefore, there is the above equity transfer event.
Q8: Is there any other capital to enter Nowogen?
Chairman of Xun Ouyang: In fact, Nowogen has just completed a new round of financing, is currently making business changes, and is expected to disclose the status of new shareholders soon. In addition, it is expected that Nowogen will start a new round of financing in the second half of this year.
Q9: Mr. Zhao, what is the future position of Nowogen in the layout of Vision Battery, and will the reactor use Nowogen?
A: First of all, from the perspective of the supply chain, it is unlikely that all of them will be adopted. However, Nowogen is our most important strategic partner and our current deep partner in the procurement of stacks. Nowogen occupies a particularly important position.
Whether it is 30%, 50% or 70% of the purchase volume is possible, because our commitment and response are toward the same goal, but ultimately depends on Nowogen's capacity matching, and the choice of Nowogen technology development focus and Our market layout focuses on the high degree of matching. I estimate that we will have at least two reactor suppliers in the future, but we think that Nowogen is definitely the most important one in strategy.
Q10: What is your opinion on the current development of this industry? In addition, what do you think of the current field of capital investment in the industry?
Chairman of Xun Ouyang: First of all, there is always good heat. In 2018, the hydrogen energy industry was indeed hot. In January 2019, several important national conferences were held, including the recent enthusiasm for hydrogen energy in the secondary market.
Then in the actual investment, the funds invested in the industrial chain are currently concentrated in the reactor and the engine. In addition, some good companies and projects have appeared in the membrane electrode, but overall, the core of the engine The investment in the components is still relatively small, and we expect to see more domestic air compressors, hydrogen pumps and humidifiers.
The investment in core materials in the upstream industry is now relatively small. In terms of proton membranes, there are now some products from the Dongyue Group. It has not yet been discovered that other domestic companies can produce core materials for the hydrogen energy industry.
We especially look forward to companies with the right core material technology to provide a more competitive, more affordable fuel cell core material for localized companies like Nowogen. But this piece needs real investment and patience to develop and realize.
Q11: Will Vision Battery be laid out in the future, such as raw materials or hydrogen refueling stations?
Vice President Xiaoli Zhao: Our entire investment layout is gradual. Our focus is first on the engine, then on the key component suppliers like Nowogen, followed by the core upstream membrane electrode. The horizontal choice is first of all the design of the hydrogen refueling station. Investment operations.
At the moment, we have not invested too much attention in the core raw materials. First, there are not many targets for reliability. Second, some involve large chemical industries. It is not yet convenient for commercial companies to conduct operations. However, it is impossible to make an absolute conclusion at present, because if the entire industry develops to a relatively mature time, it is necessary to find some areas with high technological innovation, and it may still go upstream of the industrial chain.
Q12: Have you paid any attention to this stock market recently? What do you think about this?
Chairman of Xun Ouyang: I think the fuel cell sector is going up. I think it is a good thing because everyone needs some good news. Of course, we also need to return to reason. After all, the development of the industry will not rise with the rise of people's emotions. The development of the industry has to be one step at a time, and it must be steadily and steadily.
Q13: What do you think is the current trend of the industry development, and when will there be an outbreak in the future?
Vice President Xiaoli Zhao: There are already many links that are profitable or profitable, including Nowogen reactors and our generators. Profits are now achievable. On a larger scale, I think it may take 2-3 years.
This takes time to prepare. The first is to increase the cost performance from the system to the stack to the membrane electrode, to reduce costs, increase scale, and improve stability. The second point is the layout of the hydrogen refueling station, which must achieve a benign development. Without the matching of the hydrogen refueling station, the core components cannot be landed. So these two pieces take about 2-3 years, and the whole market and the whole industry will have a clearer presentation. I still have a positive expectation.
Q14: If the subsidy ends in 2025, foreign passenger car companies enter China in a big way. Do you think that China is ready to compete with foreign companies at that time?
Chairman of Xun Ouyang: I think it must be done. Because this matter has no retreat, industrial support cannot be too long, and future competition is international. Then I feel that we still have confidence in the face of competition.
The first is talent. China's policy of attracting talents is the best in the world. Now China has gathered the world's best fuel cell talents, including Chinese and foreigners. This is the first.
The second is the industrial base. Automobiles, power lithium batteries and electronic products have driven many domestic equipment manufacturers to develop, which is a particularly good basis for the industrialization of fuel cells. Because when we are developing the fuel cell industry, there are many listed companies and central enterprises in China that do dispensing equipment, coating equipment, laser welding equipment, various robots, and corresponding automation software management systems.
The third is the market. China is the largest market for new energy vehicles. The government's support is strong and its development is determined. In the future, China's hydrogen vehicle market will certainly be the highest in the world.
So I think from several directions, we should have confidence.
In fact, perhaps not in 2025, I think that in the next three to five years, in certain applications, such as the field of commercial vehicles, heavy trucks, China should be able to come up with an internationally competitive solution.
Our fuel cell development should be faster than lithium batteries, and I think China's market is big enough to accommodate more companies to grow together.
Q15: At the end of the interview, the two summed up 2018 for us, and there is a vision for 2019.
Vice President Xiaoli Zhao: For Vision Battery, 2018 is the true beginning of the year. In the beginning of the year we have achieved a full range of results.
In 2019 we have two main points. One point is to deepen the existing market. Our foundation in Shanxi and Hubei is very good. These two foundations need to be further deepened. The second is to develop a closer cooperation with the company like Nowogen in the development of the entire engine-to-pile technology. It is necessary to get through the development of the engine from 45KW to 120KW, even metal plates. Good value for money.
Chairman of Xun Ouyang: 2018 The whole industry has taken some solid steps, although the development in the market is not as high as the expectations of it in early 2018. For example, the hydrogen refueling station can be compared with the beginning of the year at the end of 2018. A number of expectations, but the heroes of various industries have already achieved good results and accumulated a foundation for the future.
2019 is a crucial year. I hope that the industry can have a large-scale plan. In 2020, it will be the first to achieve the goal of real commercial application in some areas of transportation.
Vision battery Full name: Shenzhen Center Power Tech.Co.,Ltd.
Nowogen Full name: Beijing Nowogen Technology Co.,Ltd.
Source : ENERGYLINK (media platform of TrendBank)